Is Quill screwing you too on the NR70"? Let's act!

[VLevyNYC]

Ok. Quill is screwing me and I am in a bit of trouble now. I was one of the "lucky" ones that was able to get in on that beyond-great deal on the NR70 for $200.I even reassured some people as to their reputability and reliabilty when they expressed concern that they never heard of them.(see the original, short thread at http://www.cliesource.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=156930#post156930)

Well, I ordered it 3 AM Tuesday right when I saw the post and I got it. I stayed up another 2 hours posting my T665c with accessories on eBay, and at a fire-sale price because I figured I just wanted to be sure I could unload it quick; based on the net NR70 price ($216) I put the BuyItNow price at what I thought would allow me to upgrade with no out-of-pocket costs--$237, including my Bellagio case, 128MB MS, and newly installed G2 protector, collectively which I paid $95 for alone. (eBay item # 3017752026 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15031&item=3017752026&rd=1)

Well, I called Quill today to check status because a bidder called me to see if he could pick it up from me by Sunday. They said that they were sold out and when I ordered the inventory was inaccurate. Wait, it gets worse. Apparently there were over 500 people who were allowed to place orders when the item was not in stock! And it appears that they only had LESS THAN 50 units on the closeout.

They can't do this. I relied on their info, to my detriment, and I will be out of pocket over $100 to replace to a Clie of equivalent value. My T665c sold on BuyItNow (of course). I am entitled to rely on their price and they must honor it!

This is a breach of contract, plain and simple. They had a firm offer, I accepted, all material terms were there, and they cannot revoke it. Legally speaking, they must honor that contract, even if it means going out and buying the NR70s on the open market and sending it to me at a loss. This is called the "market price differential" of damages.

I want to organize a class-action. Before you think Im crazy (is it too late?), I am in my third year of law school and right now have a LOT of time on my hands and might be willing to do the work (depending on how many people respond). Because I am not now a lawyer I cannot yet represent you or give legal advice to you, but I will do the non-legal legwork and as of August 1, I can represent the class' interests.

Please let me know if you, too, ordered one of these and are not going to receive it (they're still calling those 500 people as of today to notify them--how unprofessional this is). Also, if you could be so nice to inform me of the time and date you ordered, and whether your order was one of the few that went through and will get it.


Let's show them to be more responsible in maintaining their website because this product is used for business by many users, and that they can't just "pull the rug" from under us when they were negligient in their pricing/advertising. They should have expected more consumer demand on a deal like this, and should have MADE SURE that their inventory would be accurate. Of course, ultimately the objective would be to put pressure on them and deliver at the price they offered to, and accepted from, us.

[yOyOYoo]

wow good luck to you man.

I know what it feels like to be cheated.

[Rick 098]

Ow.hope you get your NR from them!

[VLevyNYC]

I spoke with them today and they're basically telling me " F U " This is ridiculous. This is an open-and-shut case of breach of contract and they are taking advantage of the fact that they're the Big Corporationa and I'm the powerless consumer. But I am determined. I know my rights and I plan to make them live it up to their obligations under contract law.

Anyone have any ideas?

Also, if you were involved in this with them in any capacity please e-mail me at

 

[*YellowRose*]

I find it sad that we live in such a litigious society.

Couldn't it have been an honest mistake? Why bust their chops over it?

Get an NX. It's better.

Geez.

[L-3]

Look at it this way.
What's your time worth?
More importantly what's THEIR time worth??? I think if you pursue legal action against them (as an individual with a strong legal background), even in small claims court, they'd settle with you (eg: a new Clie) to prevent incurring far more costs than that of a new Clie.
However, trying to gather support for a class action would clearly incense them and you'd probably end up with less than you've invested (both financially and professionally).
Online retailer web sites make mistakes regularly and have all kinds of problems and circumstances that might create the situation you find yourself in.

My .02....try and get your own problem solved, and let others benefit from your potential success on their own.

[Unregistered]

clear case of of counting your eggs before they hatch, shouldn't have sold your clie till you had the new unit in your hand, or atleast till it was shipped

[BBERIC]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by VLevyNYC
[B]I spoke with them today and they're basically telling me " F U " This is ridiculous.

This is so rude !! Why don't you speak to the Supervisor or the Manager ? Instead of talking with those RUDE Customer Service ?

[VLevyNYC]

Originally posted by *YellowRose*
I find it sad that we live in such a litigious society.

Couldn't it have been an honest mistake? Why bust their chops over it?

Get an NX. It's better.

Geez.

Maybe it's sad but I will be out $100 out-of-pocket unless I enforce my rights. They are taking advantage of the power imbalance between us. If I hadnt put my item for bid on eBay I'd still be pissed but certainly wouldnt be going through all this. Not to mention that it's just terrible business practice for them to create 500 dissatisfied customers while only selling about 50 units (how much profit could they have made at that price).

Not only do I have all the elements of a legal case, its just morally wrong for them to do this to me. Basically what theyre saying is "we're not reliable so you cant go by what our website says." And I would love to get the NX, but you know what?--it's double the price! I dont have that kind of money; I am a student with a lot of debt coming due soon. Indeed the only reason I bought theirs was I figured I could upgrade to a better screen and get the headphone with remote buttons at no extra cost.

The least they could is upgrade me to the immediate next model up at the same price. They havent even offered that. In fact the guy I spoke with today said he would help me find a "comparable" model. He said the NX70 was comparable. No kidding. But its $575, and I could have bought that on my own without going thru this mess. How does that solve my problem??

What am I supposed to do here?

[VLevyNYC]

Originally posted by L-3
Look at it this way.
What's your time worth?
More importantly what's THEIR time worth??? I think if you pursue legal action against them (as an individual with a strong legal background), even in small claims court, they'd settle with you (eg: a new Clie) to prevent incurring far more costs than that of a new Clie.
However, trying to gather support for a class action would clearly incense them and you'd probably end up with less than you've invested (both financially and professionally).
Online retailer web sites make mistakes regularly and have all kinds of problems and circumstances that might create the situation you find yourself in.

My .02....try and get your own problem solved, and let others benefit from your potential success on their own.

I would love to do that, but they dont seem to be listening to me because they think Im "just one person"

[VLevyNYC]

Originally posted by Unregistered
clear case of of counting your eggs before they hatch, shouldn't have sold your clie till you had the new unit in your hand, or atleast till it was shipped

I did that because I thought they were reliable and I got an order # and confirmation #. I think I should be entitled to rely on what they told me. And I wanted to make sure I could sell mine for relatively the same price so that I could upgrade at no cost. That's why I sold it at a lower price than usual; I would have cancelled if it turned out there was no interest in my old one (not likely) within 2 days. Their policy permits you to cancel before it is shipped, and I doubt they'd have had trouble unloading it to someone else at that price. And it's poerfectly fair that I could cancel but I'm saying they cant cancel, because those are terms of their offer and theres nothing wrong with using their rules to my benefit.

I think I acted conscientiously.

[Jewboy]

if i see a good deal on the net, i call them up and make an order unless it's ebay. surprizes are very common when i call, like a few month i found a few t665 on a great sale and called them up they said they didn't have that deal anymore, so i asked for the sales manager and he agreed to hold up the deal due to quantity, but that won't work all the time, don't judge the product by it's site, call them first next time.

[VLevyNYC]

I agree with that but it was 2:30 a.m. and I didnt want to take the chance that theyd run out by the time I could call them in the morning.

I cant believe no one agrees that I should be entitled to rely on the offer they had, processed, and gave me a confirmation on. Especially when it was a large dealer like them that sell in large quantities. And it's not even a story of me being the "last order"--theres hundreds of people that this happened to!

[aaronrkelly]

I agree with you VLevyNYC - you have to be accountable for your action, especially when they cause others hardship. The company gave you all the indications that you would be receieving the product your ordered.....what more should the guy have done - had them send pictures of the UPS guy picking up the package. Order number and confirmation number - nuff said where is my order (cut and dry).

[dphar]

I think you are already being effective just by publicizing the bad experience you have had. I forget the exact statistics but something like a very satisfied customer might tell 10 people but a very dissatisfied customer tells 100+.

But I agree with a previous response that class action usually ends up satisfying no one--you, the other participants nor the company.

But still, good luck in ensuring that this company does not hurt others.

[A1CPete]

VLevyNYC,
I agree with you completly. In fact this reminds me of something that happened to me just around november on ebay. This canadian seller was ripping everybody off so I started a mailing list with all the people who'd won auctions from him, and within days we had so much information on the guy it was ridiculous. Different names, addresses, phone numbers, ebay names, e-mail addresses; and everytime he'd start a new ebat account, we'd just add all those people to the list, and things would just grow. It was actually kind of fun after awhile.

But anyway, I think your within your rights and I'm rooting for you. The whole thing behind any mail order site, or web page, is reguardless of if the item's in stock, you're giving them the money right then and there, and they are promising to send you the product. Basically you're going on their word that they have it and will send it to you.

Course...now I'm glad I didn't buy one.

[Unregistered]

Jesus Christ...It was a price mistake and YOU are trying to SCREW THEM. Just because you were an idiot and unloaded your perfectly good clie....

I hope they stomp you like an ant you are....

[r2d]

VLevyNYC, I definitely think you have all the right to be angry and frustrated. Just like aaronrkelly said, what more proof did you need if you already had order & confirmation numbers !

I agree that they may not have done this on purpose, but you do end up suffering a financial loss for their mistake. Instead of behaving so rudely, they should have at least tried to find a middle way.

I'm no lawyer - if you actually went ahead with the sale of your old PDA after you had received their confirmation, shouldn't you be able to claim that your loss was a direct result of their mistake and ask to be compensated?

[VLevyNYC]

Originally posted by r2d

I'm no lawyer - if you actually went ahead with the sale of your old PDA after you had received their confirmation, shouldn't you be able to claim that your loss was a direct result of their mistake and ask to be compensated?

Well, I'm no lawyer either (yet), but I am a law student. This is open-and-shut first-year contract law. We had a contract, there was a breach, and I am entitled to the remedy. They either have to deliver to me the product within the time frame promised (1-2 business days to ship) or I can go and buy the same product (after a reasonable search for best price -duty to mitigate damages on my part) and theyre liable for the difference. The problem is these are my rights in theory, but in practice it seems theyre ineffective because I have no practical mechanism to enforce them if the breaching party wants to play the "we're bigger than you" game. Yes I an take them to court, which I may even do, but that involves more hassle for me. But I WILL do that because there's a principle involved here--I wont give them the satisfaction of taking advantage of the power imbalance of our two positions.

Techincally speaking, I dont even have to show that I sold my PDA to win damages. All I need to show is breach of contract and I can sue them for the market price differential that I paid out-of-pocket to get the same unit. The extra sale price I could have gotten for my old Clie is not recoverable, because it was my decision to sell at that price, even though I only sold it in reliance on their offer. It would help me if they try to challenge my claim of damages, because I could argue in the alternate that even though I didnt have "damages" by not getting their product, I nevertheless relied on the contract to my detriment and they would be forced to honor for that reason alone.

I just hate that they are making me go through all this.

[dphar]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Jesus Christ...It was a price mistake and YOU are trying to SCREW THEM. Just because you were an idiot and unloaded your perfectly good clie....

I hope they stomp you like an ant you are....

Please, as a guest, you should behave better. Please refer to 'state of negativity' thread.

[VLevyNYC]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Jesus Christ...It was a price mistake and YOU are trying to SCREW THEM. Just because you were an idiot and unloaded your perfectly good clie....

I hope they stomp you like an ant you are....

Hey Mr. Hero,

I am not trying to screw anyone. If you think that insisting on having them honor a price they offered and confirmed and processed to me, and caused me to rely on to my detriment, is ME trying to screw THEM, then maybe youre living in the pre-WWII America and should stay there. The rule of consumer protection is no longer "buyer beware" and they should have known that this prodcut would draw a large amount of interest and planned in advacne to ensure that their website would be accurate upon selling out. In any event, they should at least try to make me happy in light of my situation. I feel that under the circumstances I was very reasonable and did all I could (at 3 am) to make sure that I would not be trying to screw them. But if it comes down to me relying on what they told me, then I think I am entitled to do that.

And next time if youre such a man to try to insult me, which Im not insulted by because of the immaturity in your tone and comments, why dont you sign your name like everyone else does. Who's the "ant" now?

Yet another argument for ClieSource not allowing people to post as "guests."

[fjl307]

Originally posted by VLevyNYC
I spoke with them today and they're basically telling me " F U " This is ridiculous. This is an open-and-shut case of breach of contract and they are taking advantage of the fact that they're the Big Corporationa and I'm the powerless consumer. But I am determined. I know my rights and I plan to make them live it up to their obligations under contract law.

Anyone have any ideas?

Also, if you were involved in this with them in any capacity please e-mail me at VLevyNYC@aol.com

 

I agree with you 100%!! I never ordered from them but I was about to. I think that If they already had ran out of units to sell, the stupid SOB's should have got thier fat {butts} up and updated the site when you ordered, or at least emailed you saying they were out of units.

[xXx]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Jesus Christ...It was a price mistake and YOU are trying to SCREW THEM. Just because you were an idiot and unloaded your perfectly good clie....

I hope they stomp you like an ant you are....

 

Can you be any more immature?  I thought ClieSource was making a ****ing rule to stop ignorant, to-lazy-to-register- bastards like you, from posting on this forum. I respect your opinion but do u have to be so harsh dumbass?  There is a reason no one likes people who post that are unregistered, becasue of people like you, ****head. 

I agree completely with VlevyNYC.  They should honor their mistakes, you just cant do something wrong, and when people do take advantage of it, say no..thats like being an indian giver (busting out the kindergarten terms).  I hope YOU stomp them like the ant THEY are!

[phatfarm]

big companies do this all the time, they're called PRICE MISTAKES. just because they're relatively small don't think u can push them around and "make" them sell you something they dont have or below cost.

don't you think thats wrong? they already tried to provide an expensive clie at a very low price, you can't appreciate that fact? yet you strive to whine and moan like a little kid and destroy a companies reputation by something stupid as this?

you should have verified that they had this in stock. at least they were honest and didn't tell you that the item was backordered 12 weeks.

im not vouching for this company in anyway, im just wondering why you have to bring up lawsuits over something like this. the fact is, they don't have it in stock.

people like you guys make me feel bad for the businesses trying to offer great deals to consumers. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[phatfarm]

oh and read this.

http://www06.quillcorp.com/Content/Quill/Policy/C_order_disclaimer.asp



Quill reserves the right, to be exercised at its sole discretion, to reject orders, including but not limited to those orders that use a promotion that was once obtained from a bulletin board or other Internet site.

why dont u call your mom and whine to her, at least theres a possibility she'll buy you one

[fjl307]

VLevyNYC, Did you already pay for the NR or were they going to charge you when it shipped out?

[Unregistered]

No offense intended but for a 3rd year law student you don't have a very good grasp of contract law:

3 requirements of a contract:

1) Offer
2) Acceptance
3) Consideration (in this case money)

Assuming they didn't charge your credit card you don't have any consideration to make the contract binding. Until your card is charged you simply have an offer to purchase. They legally declined your offer. The fact that you acted on the assumption of a contract prematurely does not cause the contract to be binding. I'm not trying to be a jerk and I'm sorry for your financial loss but honestly you should have waited for a confirmed charge (and not a pre-authorization) before selling your old Clie. You knew this was going to a limited availability item which should have made you even more cautious. There is no legal expectation that web site inventories will be 100% accurate.

Chalk it up to experience and move on. Your impatience cost you a bit but doesn't entitle you to sue.

[VLevyNYC]

Thanks for your input but any law first-year law student knows that the doctrine of consideration in contract law is an anachronism that hasnt been scrutinized in over 100 years. The modern view, and by modern I mean post-1930s, is that consideration can be satisifed simply by the exhange of promises to perform, even conditional promises. I promised that I would pay in exchange for their promise to send me the merchandise. I dont know if youre in law school, but the "peppercorn theory" of consideration says that even a peppercorn can serve as consideration, named as such to demonstrate the almost non-existent threshhold required to satisfy the requirement. But even assuming this was NOT a contract, with no consideration, I can still rely on equitable doctrines like promissry estoppel, or even partial performance because I reasonably (as a consumer I think it was reasonable to assume I could rely on what their site said) relied to my detriment.

I checked their site and all the disclaimers there only relate to situations when an order is not confirmed. My story is that I ordered, got a confirmation and order #, and had no reason to believe I shouldnt rely on it. It was a "closeout" and it not altogether impossible that the deal was too good to be true. Their site does not have any discalimers to orders that have been confirmed, and certainly none to the effect that "you should not rely on our pricing or inventroy system" until you see you card charged, and understandably so--becasue they want to give the impression that they are reliable and reputable and worthy of your trust that you will get what you ordered. It would be a non-actionable offer to purchase up until the point they accepted my order and led me to believe that I could expect performance.

So maybe your business law teacher didnt go through the exact contours of the requirements of a valid contract. I am assuming that because you erroneously assumed that the consideration here was "money," while that is never necessarily the case, and in fact not the case in this instance. In any event, under contract law I have other remedies available that help me. So theres no need to be sorry or feel like youre sounding like a jerk, because youre incorrect as to the force of the doctrine of consideration. While it still is a requirement of a valid contract it is far outdated to be of any real legla use. Some state legislatures have even passed statutes saying that consideration is satisfied merely by the existence of a signed contract, which I have in this case. But thanks for your input.

p.s. I didn't realize, but I'm now a Senior Member. Woo hoo!

[rob_squared]

I find it sad that a few people are willing to roll over and die instead of persue their rights.

[fjl307]

Originally posted by rob_squared
I find it sad that a few people are willing to roll over and die instead of persue their rights.

 

I'd die to persue my rights.

[mrdeucie]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Jesus Christ...It was a price mistake and YOU are trying to SCREW THEM. Just because you were an idiot and unloaded your perfectly good clie....

I hope they stomp you like an ant you are....

I don't see anywhere in this thread where Quill referred to his order as a price mistake.

VLevyNYC I am sorry to hear that this did not work out for you.

[fjl307]

I'm really glad again, I didn't order from them! I think I'll chack out the T665 deal @ TigerDirect :)

[VLevyNYC]

Thanks to everyone who gave feedback here. For the record, they did not say it was a price mistake (indeed, some people got it for that price), they said that the inventory was inaccurate. They acknowledged that their site offered it for sale, accepted my order, and confirmed it to me. They just take the position that, notwithstanding the aforementioned, they made a mistake and will not do anything to correct the error. And theres many others that this happened to. That pisses me off. It should piss you off, too, if youre a consumer the buys regularly from the net.

Dont let this showing of appreciation be deemed as an end to the thread. Keep the comments going if you have any.

[VLevyNYC]

Originally posted by mrdeucie


VLevyNYC I am sorry to hear that this did not work out for you.

 

Thanks. Not that you should, but dont feel bad at all. If I remember correctly you were the one that gave everyone the heads-up on this deal. Great work! You saved a lot of us a lot of money. Even though I didnt wind up gettng one, I still appreciate your thoughts and applaud your efforts.

[fjl307]

I'm looking for an NR or T665 around this price, I'll tell you if I find anything :)

[fjl307]

Tigerdirect has T665's for $250 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?sku=S08-9506%20P

and Sony has refurbs at the same price

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=Jr_QI3h_EQPQMUbmtA7aKDdv0LbsHyOac6o=?Dept=hp&CatalogCategoryID=aV8KC0%2eNg3kAAAD0PBpYjHwb

[mrdeucie]

Originally posted by VLevyNYC


 

Thanks. Not that you should, but dont feel bad at all. If I remember correctly you were the one that gave everyone the heads-up on this deal. Great work! You saved a lot of us a lot of money. Even though I didnt wind up gettng one, I still appreciate your thoughts and applaud your efforts.

I hope this whole ordeal with Quills works out for the better for you. Keep us posted as to what happens.

[VLevyNYC]

While searching for a different thread wehre I posted something, I came across this one. I thought I'd update everyone as to what happened with my Quill "order." I wound upo being given the contact info for a Staples (Quill's parent) staff attorney and told him my ordeal.

He was very shocked as to (i) the carelessness of the site's inaccurate info, (ii) and the way three successive Quill service reps failed to make me happy after I informed them of the error. He assured me that the way I was treated was not how Quill usually deals with customers, but nevertheless Quill could only do one of two things: offer me a Tungsten T for the price I orderd the NR70 ($216, while the T|T was selling for $300 retail) or give me a $100 store credit for the difference I paid for the NR70 I eventually was forced to buy elsewhere (b/c, remember I had sold my T665 in reliance on the NR70 order).

Since Quill sold office supplies, and I didnt really need any, I took the T|T for the discounted price. I then "flipped" it in retail terms--re-sold it immediately for proift--on eBay for about $290. Bottom line was I wound up getting the NR70 for about $230 out-of-pocket and still got roughly the deal I was offered. Although I had to jump through hurdles to get it, I did. But I would still think twice about buying from Quill in light of the way they handled my problem.

p.s. About a month later, I sold the NR70 on eBay for about break-even and took advantage of that great lead by someone at ClieSource about the NX60 sale at CompUSA for $299. I love the NX60.

[jws]

Wow, VLevyNYC, i'm very glad it worked out well for you. You actually got more than you ordered in the first place :).

[dphar]

Often, things do work out for the best..and look at all the experience...

[Miknitro]

Some things are worth fighting for.
Tangible items are a reward.

Wtg

[n2ifp]

Originally posted by dphar
I think you are already being effective just by publicizing the bad experience you have had. I forget the exact statistics but something like a very satisfied customer might tell 10 people but a very dissatisfied customer tells 100+.

But I agree with a previous response that class action usually ends up satisfying no one--you, the other participants nor the company.

But still, good luck in ensuring that this company does not hurt others.

In a class action suit against HP, I was able to get my money back and buy a Palm device. The company misstated the actual number of colors available in it's display. It was only 4,096 colors instead of 65,536 colors as advertised. So there are cases where class action does work. What rankles my feathers is when someone sues, because of their own stupidity. Just a general comment and no inference intended. :)