Anyone else dissapointed with the "Multimedia" abilities?

[Tek Phreak]

This machine is supposed to be one of Palm OS' first multimedia powerhouses. But it does multimedia functions horribly i think!

-=Doesn't play VBR mp3's=-
To me that's not the biggest issue, but still, it's extremely annoying when you just transfer an mp3 on the go and you find out while your playin them on the road or while your walking that 1/3 of them don't play. . . AND THEY'RE ALWAYS YOUR FAVORITE ONES TOO!

-=The video aspect=-
Compared to a PPC, it's terrible. Sure, it's "OK," but for the $550 that i payed, i want more than "OK." You can only transfer mpeg files over clieimport, little to no support for the .avi extension no matter what it's encoded with. It's hard to shrink a movie in mpeg and still have it be in good, non-pixelated, full motion quality. To me it looks like it would at least take a 512mb MSPRO. Which isn't worth the money in my opinion. On my old Ipaq 3635 i fit all of the movie Hackers onto a 128mb CF card and it played in near perfect quality (i did this mainly by decreasing the audio encoding really low and actually decreasing the fps using Virtual Dub). I just can't get the same results with the clie, because i always have to reencode it to mpeg. And Kinoma picture quality is just... well it's terrible. Kinoma doesn't really seem like an option considering the picture looks so bad, but the CF Driver can't currently use the Clie's built in movie player.... Unless the CF Driver doesn't take advantage of this... i dunno what i'll do.

The problem is i dropped my CLie on concrete once from like 1-2 feet and it knicked up the front, so it doesn't look like i could sell it for much... I think what i might forsee myself doing is just getting a dell axim. Budget minded, dual slotted. Can take CF bluetooth card which costs less than $60 and can play .avi encodings like my IPaq used to. Don't get my wrong, i love my Clie, but where's the Multimedia Powerhouse that i thought i was buying when i bought it....! I'll miss the camera, sure, and the great screen, but are these worthy trade offs?

Enjoi.
-Tek

[rhart00]

try some 3rd party apps if you are dissappointed with the built-in stuff. Personally I love it

[jklfafa]

UMMM.NOOOOOO the multimedia is awsome
i was a pocketpc user, and that stunk, the sony nx is awesome!!!!

[n2ifp]

I am fairly happy with mine. I look at those features as icing on the cake. No matter how good, someone will find fault, can't make everyone happy, LOL!

Yes, maybe the PPC may have the edge, but it also falls down in other areas. Don't get me wrong, I like things perfect too. There are many trade offs with pricing, size, efficiency, and complexity.

I also was disappointed that VBR was no longer supported on the NX, but was supported on the NR. It still plays music though. If I really want to get into the tunes, then I use my MD Player :).

[jklfafa]

the xscale on the pocketpc is completely a joke!!!!....it sucks so much ,,i couldnt stand the performance of an xscale 400mhz pocketpc, it was worse then my 206mhz ipaq.....what a waste.
...i created vindows xp...on my ipaq...not toshiba 740..microsoft stinks...they never get anything right

[Alistar]

I don't really understand this VBR mp3's (what is it, how is it done, how do you tell?) I have tons of mp3's and I haven't had a problem yet.

[NXTacy]

I switched from PPC to Clie. I'm not going back to PPC any time soon.

As far as VBRs. Really how hard is it to make a fixed rate MP3? If you want HQ sound you should be going with fixed rate anyways. I never rip my CDs or archive my vinyl as VBR. Save vbr for streams.

For file format. I watch MOV, AVI, and MPEGs converted on my clie. I've even put on mpegs 4 without conversion. The AVIs I have were shot with my Sony Digi8 and my Fuji Finepix and avis made from Windows Movie Maker 2. All play fine. Your prob is you're probably using divx coded avis not just a plain avi.

I've got gobs of trailers from apple.com Matrix Reloaded, Incredible Hulk, Charlies Angels 2, X-Men 2. They're all MOV files on the apple site and they look stellar on my Clie

Oh in DVD vobs, MOV, AVI and Mpeg the audio track is taking up an insignifigant amount of space in comparison to the total size. If you doubt this open an AVI you've encoded and totally delete the audio track and save it and compare the file size of the original. Do the same for the other file formats as well and see what I'm talking about.

Thing is killing my old HP and NX70v vs Dell Axim. Are you for real?

Now dropping the clie on concrete. Not once but twice. All I got to say about that is DOH!!

[Tek Phreak]

Well actually it was only once, it was in my pocket and i was getting out of my girlfriends spyder eclipse and the seats are so low that it just slides out. I dunno, i've been thinking about the subject today during classes and i reached the decision that it really wouldn't be worth chanign devices just for better movie playback. I've grown way to accustomed to Palm Apps in general.

But i guess i'm the only one that wants their NX to play back a full movie ripped from a DVD in good quality. I know the audio takes up little space, in general decreasing the Bit-Rate and FPS will get the video down smaller, but still not small enough for me. I dunno, i'm gonna work with it some more over the next few days and see if i can't tweak out the settings in Kinoma some how to get a a 200+mb file for my 256 cf card.
Ok, my post might have been a little hasty, i guess i was just getting frustrated. I really want goo quality playback. I don't see why WMP for PPC can play back .avi w/ divx encoding but we can't... it's just frustrating, if that was fixed i would be the happiest camper of all, oh well, for now it still does everything else really well.

Enjoi.
-Tek

[silencer]

Tek Phreak: ...I really want goo quality playback...

I really enjoy this sentence :)

[cbulock]

Originally posted by NXTacy
I've even put on mpegs 4 without conversion.

Could you explain how you did this. I have been trying to figure this out, but have been failing.

[demannu]

Well I checked with getinfo in quicktime, and I am currently trying to compress a simpsons to the size of a mqv video from the palm... we'lss see about getting it back on the card.

[demannu]

taking a very long time to convert... even on a dual 1.42! geesh, where's the speed people?

[somas1]

Originally posted by Tek Phreak
This machine is supposed to be one of Palm OS' first multimedia powerhouses. But it does multimedia functions horribly i think!

-=The video aspect=-
Compared to a PPC, it's terrible. Sure, it's "OK," but for the $550 that i payed, i want more than "OK." You can only transfer mpeg files over clieimport, little to no support for the .avi extension no matter what it's encoded with. It's hard to shrink a movie in mpeg and still have it be in good, non-pixelated, full motion quality. To me it looks like it would at least take a 512mb MSPRO. Which isn't worth the money in my opinion. On my old Ipaq 3635 i fit all of the movie Hackers onto a 128mb CF card and it played in near perfect quality (i did this mainly by decreasing the audio encoding really low and actually decreasing the fps using Virtual Dub). I just can't get the same results with the clie, because i always have to reencode it to mpeg. .
-Tek Are you serious?  Movie playback on a PPC is horrid.  If you lowered Hackers to 12 FPS  to get it to play on an Ipaq 3635 then you can not complain about movie player. 

[Tek Phreak]

Originally posted by somas1
Are you serious?  Movie playback on a PPC is horrid.  If you lowered Hackers to 12 FPS  to get it to play on an Ipaq 3635 then you can not complain about movie player. 

actually i can't remember it's been a while but i think it was something like 14.7, i forget though, it's been over a year. The thing is, the bit rate was still really high, so the picture looked great! But the fps was lowered, and then vdub resyncs the audio to match it. If you watch it you can tell that the fps was dropped, but the audio still matches up with the video. it's only like millamillaseconds off, if you can imagine what i'm saying. Man, that rocked, now if i had that same playback on my cf, i could probably rase the fps to around 20 or 21 and get a 250mb file, since 256+mb cf cards are out and affordable now and it would be fantastic and i would be so happy. Alas, i can not, cause the movie player is too limited to it's playbacks. I am however making advances with Kinoma, don't think i'll get that great of a looking movie, but at least it will be able to store on CF and i wont have to pay for an MS Pro. We'll see, the next few days will tell....

Enjoi.
-Tek

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by cbulock


Could you explain how you did this. I have been trying to figure this out, but have been failing.

yeah...just share with us how did u manage to play mpeg4 files without converting..this is really interesting..

:rolleyes:

[demannu]

The file format for these files are some sort of Streaming MPEG4 media called Elementary. I haven't been able to convert into this format. So my simpsons episode did not go well.

-d

[yOyOYoo]

who wants to watch an entire movie on their CLIE anyways... that's gotta be killer on your eye sight.

[Selachii]

It has more "multimedia" abilities then I expected..


about the unconverted mpgs (mpg-1 and mp-4 I believe) put them on MS in the folder
\MSSONY\MOML0001\
then name them like MOV0001.MPG and so on and they will appear in the movie player as 'mpgs' (plz select the 'mpg from ms' filter *doh*)
There were some topics about this.
I'm able to watch MPGS of 1200 kbps with slightest screentrearing on fast moving scenes...

[somas1]

Originally posted by Tek Phreak


actually i can't remember it's been a while but i think it was something like 14.7, i forget though, it's been over a year. The thing is, the bit rate was still really high, so the picture looked great! But the fps was lowered, and then vdub resyncs the audio to match it. If you watch it you can tell that the fps was dropped, but the audio still matches up with the video. it's only like millamillaseconds off, if you can imagine what i'm saying. Man, that rocked, now if i had that same playback on my cf, i could probably rase the fps to around 20 or 21 and get a 250mb file, since 256+mb cf cards are out and affordable now and it would be fantastic and i would be so happy. Alas, i can not, cause the movie player is too limited to it's playbacks. I am however making advances with Kinoma, don't think i'll get that great of a looking movie, but at least it will be able to store on CF and i wont have to pay for an MS Pro. We'll see, the next few days will tell....

Enjoi.
-Tek

 

Why are you bothering with kinoma?  Use image convertor and you will be able to encode full length movies at the same quality as you are used to on a PPC.  I have the matrix on a 128 MB memory stick and it is superior to what my friend is able to play on his axim.  If you want to use cf, then just wait.  Someone will figure out how to get movie player to see the cf card.  A movie encoded at high quality on image convertor blows away the supposed divx player on PPCs.

[michael1960]

Hi Tek Phreak,

personally, I think the NX70 has great multimedia capabilities and is superior to everything I saw on PPC so far. I agree that MP3 playback could be better, i.e. I would love to be able to play with lower sampling rates to store audio books on my memory stick. But displaying pictures and movies on the 480x320 display is really great!

I don't share your opinion that Kinoma player has a terrible picture quality. Of course most of it depends on the compression and sampling rate that is used when producing the movie. I converted several movies with the Kinoma producer and find the quality superb.

Even without Kinoma the NX70 does a great job playing back movies that were recorded otherwise, e.g. with a SONY camcorder or with the NX70 itself. And with it's ability to capture pictures, movies and sound, it is really an outstanding multimedia device.

[|||synthtax|||]

Okay, this is the perfect thread for me. I've spent the last few days over at PIC, but I see this is also a good place for me to be.

I'm a PPC user, thinking of switching, and multimedia is VERY important to me - since this is to be more of a portable computer for me than just a PIM (personally I hate laptops).

My OLD PPC (currently using), the Casio EM-500, can view WMV files at 240 x 160 @ 15 fps @ 110 kbps which is less than 1 MB/min and the audio never cuts and the video is 98% perfect. I'm am pretty happy with this - but know that the Casio MIPS proc is not the best around (however I currently have it overclocked to 180 MHz from 150 MHz). I would expect more from a newer device and will not just "settle" if the current Cliés can only match what the EM-500 can do.

I can use the free windows media encoder, get myself a 256 MB SD card and watch movies galore, with plenty of spare room for MP3s. But, it's time to upgrade, and the Cliés I'm looking at have a 200 MHz proc, and...

I need to know what the video quality is like, seriously. I've heard Kinoma is bad, and that the formats that are currently supported aren't great quality.

I'm not spending all this money for a machine that can play videos as well as my current PDA which is over 3 years old. I don't like what the PPCs currently have to offer, and like the Cliés, but I won't go there without this.

I'm currently thinking between the NX60 or TG50. Same proc, same RAM - I would assume same video playback.

But seriously, this is probably more important to me than you might think. If the video quality/size isn't up to snuff for me I simply wont buy any palm and go with a PPC. I would rather get a Palm, but will not hesitate to turn my back if the video playback isn't decent.

If I can't fit a full length video in 256 MB, with decent quality (close to full screen @ ~200+kbps) on a Clié, I'm gonna have to start looking harder at the PPCs.

So, tell me what your experiences are, what the quality is like, and what you think based on your experiences with these devices.

It would be really really appreciated.

Thanks.

|||synthtax|||

PS: Ideally, if someone could send me a video of their Clié playing a video that would be great, but I'll take your words on it too. :)

[Tek Phreak]

Well the built in clie player is actually a really good player. The problem is it only supports .mpeg and .mov (.mqv) playback. Because of this, in order to convert a movie to .mqv to be viewed on your palm it has to be in .mpeg form first, or in .avi w/ original encoding (no divx etc.). This means the original source file is pretty large thus resulting in a large conversion file. You can put poor quality (long mode) movies on a 128mb ms. They are generally pretty pixelated though and not very defined. If you get a 256mb+ MSPro though, i think you would be in buisiness. This would most likely allow for a transfer of a movie in standard quality and then if you got a 512+MSPro you could even go to excellent quality most likely. The problem, for me, is that MSPro's are REALLY! expensive. I just got a 256mb CF card for $43 including shipping... the 256mb MSPRO will cost you $125+. And right now the, according to the posts by amir (i'm not allowed to release any further updates because of the NDA i agreed to) the CF memory does not work in conjunction with the movie player. If our beta group, well more importantly, amir, gets that worked out than, the device will be the best device on the marked hands down, but for now, well, it's still a fantastic device. It's not worth giving up all the great other features for a different device for me.

side note - Kinoma is entirely too pixelated. I just encoded a clip of a dvd i ripped that was in excellent quality. I converted it w/ Kinoma producer using 30fps and 720kbps (highest built in settings for each) and the movie was still extremely pixelated. Watchable, yes, but not enjoyable for me.

Enjoi.
-Tek

[cykalan]

Originally posted by Tek Phreak
And Kinoma picture quality is just... well it's terrible. Kinoma doesn't really seem like an option considering the picture looks so bad, but the CF Driver can't currently use the Clie's built in movie player.... Unless the CF Driver doesn't take advantage of this... i dunno what i'll do.
-Tek

Kinoma is bad? Sorry I just can't agree with that. Kinoma is about one of the best Hi-res movie player that is available on handhelds, I think you just don't get the correct setting during conversion.

[cykalan]

Originally posted by Tek Phreak
I converted it w/ Kinoma producer using 30fps and 720kbps (highest built in settings for each) and the movie was still extremely pixelated. Watchable, yes, but not enjoyable for me.


That's the problem - Kinoma producer actually supports up to 1000kbps video bitrate, probably yours is an old version? And the frame rate you selected is way too high. For the same bitrate, the more fps you choose, the poorer the picture quality would be (number of frames will be higher though). Try encoding a movie at 1000kbps and 15fps, I am sure you will be able to get some decent quality movie. Btw, on a handheld, I think 15fps is already very very smooth...

[nx70]

To: Tek Phreak
What for a crap.
You haven't bought a Laptop did you? It is still a PDA!
In times of compressions who sticks to .avi? Do you mean these big 2GB files? I don't even use them on the PC. A well encoded mpg is good. Try the ImageConverter in HQ. The NX is as far as I know the only one supporting mp4, mp3 mpeg and wav natively all at once (Compared to PPC and Palm Inc.)
VBR. Okay I admit a variable bitrate is a neat thing but as you said. Not a must have. And as long as you take AVI-files your PC has enough space for normally encoded material..
In what you are right is the BT capability which needs the MS slot so my space gets lost.
I bought an easy to use, stylish PIM organizer with well balanced multimedia features and an option for watching movies(I record them on my PC and import them then to my NX).
But you are lucky- nobody forces you to buy one.

[durack]

Originally posted by NXTacy
As far as VBRs. Really how hard is it to make a fixed rate MP3? If you want HQ sound you should be going with fixed rate anyways. I never rip my CDs or archive my vinyl as VBR. Save vbr for streams.


Well, LAME-encoded VBR mp3 are pretty much the standard for quality mp3 encoding these days. So, to play mp3's on my Clie I either have to recompress them, or make two sets of mp3 files.

Also, kinda off-topic, but why would you use lossy compression like mp3 for archival? Wouldn't something like ape be better?

[|||synthtax|||]

I don't care how great Kinoma looks at 1Kbps, that's far too high a bitrate. I would never be able to hold a full lenght movie in a 256MB or 512MB card. That's not an option, and based on everything I've heard, I doubt Kinoma will be an option to me.

How many settings does it have, or is it just like: standard, large, small?

So, if I have to take my DivX movies, re-encode them into mpeg1 and then re-encode them into mqv is the result a pretty decent quality movie that fits in 256 MB? Is image converter the best way to convert? (By decent, I mean decent at a low bitrate)

Those of you who are convinced that the Sony's play better video than the PPCs, I'm sorry, you're lying to yourself. Perhaps they are equal, but not better. With Media Player for the PPC so many formats are supported natively, and with a free WMV encoder from Microsoft it's easy as pie to encode good qualtiy video with small file size, not to mention DivX. The Sony uses the same proc as last generation PPCs, and even my 3 year old PPC plays video satisfactorily to me but its only got 150 Mhz and 16 MB built in RAM, much less than ANY OTHER PPC. If I were to buy a PPC and not a Palm, I wouldn't have had to post one message about video, because if my 3 year old PPC can do it, I know these newer ones could do it better.

So it's not only about hardware, I'm sure the Sony has the power but it doesnt' have the software, which makes it, in my opinion, not a PEO. Software optimization is almost as important as the hardware. I don't like this having to jump through so many hoops to do something it should be able to do anyway.

Yes, video is that important to me, because I'm not spending up to $700 to downgrade from what I have now.

Thanks.

|||synthtax|||

[Puppy]

I haven't seen what the NX can do yet, so I can't judge quality, but as far as formats go, I'd say the NX definatlly beats Wince devices. Native MPEG 1, 2, and 4 versus MPEG 1 and proprietary Windows Media? That's not a tough choice for me.

I would like it to be able to do more MP3 settings though. Like MP3s recorded at less than 44Khz.

[Puppy]

Crud, can't edit my above post since I wasn't logged in.

Anyway, I wanted to point out that the NXs go for $350-$410 (and up), not $700. And I'm not sure why you'd want that Kimona player, since it comes with a free player that also lets you view/encode video "sideways" to take better advantage of the great screen.

[|||synthtax|||]

True, WMV is proprietary, but it's great compression - comparable to DivX and runs great on my PPC at under 1 MB/min. I'm not going to just dismiss something because it's windows, if in fact its good.

The Mpeg formats that the Cliés support aren't anything great. PPCs can support ANY file format with the right software, which is readily available. I know that I'm probably not going to get as good video playback on a palm as I would a PPC, I just want to make sure it's decent enough to watch and enjoy, while still fitting in under 256 MBs.

And I'm talking about $700 CAD, which is what it would cost after getting a memstick as well. Not to mention if I opted for the NX60 and a wifi card, plus wifi for my computer. We're talking mucho cash. Don't forget how much tax I'd have to pay too.

And I don't understand why the Clié has to be such a b*otch when it comes to MP3s, since free PPC programs play any MP3 with no fuss.

It's just really hard for me to make the switch beacuse multimedia is important to me, but the Cliés with the remote functionality, built in keyboards, great screens, great design and perhaps the ability to use CF as well as MS are hard to walk away from. Especially since the current batch of PPCs don't appeal to me, except for the multimedia abilities - something these palms should be able to do, and if I knew they could do it well, there would be no problems and I wouldn't hesitate getting one.

|||synthtax|||

[Puppy]

But MPEG-4 is better than WMV.

Guess I'll find out the rest once I actually get my NX 70 :)

[rob_squared]

Originally posted by Alistar
I don't really understand this VBR mp3's (what is it, how is it done, how do you tell?) I have tons of mp3's and I haven't had a problem yet.

Variable Bit Rate

It means that when a song requires higher quality the bitrate goes up and at other times it goes down. The Clie can't handle this and therefore it won't work.

[archangel]

I had a Tungsten and believe me these complaints are minor. The Tungsten can play VBR formats and Ogg files, but the sound quality is so bad its not worth trying. Kinoma is the only video option as well.

The NX and NZ do a pretty solid job of multimedia and its as good as anything currently available including PPC.

[ashVID]

The only issue for me is having to convert everything but this is true of all Palm stuff. In fact, most DIVX movies have to be converted for PPC anyway. My friends with PPCs are jealous at how good the Matrix Reloaded trailer looks. If you are complaining about the quality I suspect you are not converting them properly, I have Shrek on a 128mb MS and it looks stunning. MANY devices do not support VBR MP3s, I have NONE, there is no need IMHO...



ash =o)

[T1000X]

Originally posted by ashVID
The only issue for me is having to convert everything but this is true of all Palm stuff. In fact, most DIVX movies have to be converted for PPC anyway. My friends with PPCs are jealous at how good the Matrix Reloaded trailer looks. If you are complaining about the quality I suspect you are not converting them properly, I have Shrek on a 128mb MS and it looks stunning. MANY devices do not support VBR MP3s, I have NONE, there is no need IMHO...



ash =o)

Wow, how did you fit Shrek on a single 128MB stick?!? That is one of my favorite movies and I'd love to have it to show off.

Right now I'm trying to see what I can do to get my DivX encoded Transformer (as in More Then Meets the Eye) episodes playable on my Clie. They are in MPEG4 video with MPEG3 audio, and average about 45MB in size. I remember seeing one post somewhere but cant find it where someone managed to get a movie with MPEG4 video and MPEG3 audio on a Memory Stick without conversion. I'm a big Transformers fan, and I'd love to watch the episodes while I'm out. I've been working on my problem now for a full two weeks (about 10 hours of time) with no luck so far. Any ideas or help would be appreciated. Thank you!

[spanky999]

Can I use this(NX70V CLIÉ™ Handheld) to brows the internet using my cell phone sevice provider, or can it be used as a cell pone?

[ashVID]

Originally posted by T1000X


Wow, how did you fit Shrek on a single 128MB stick?!? That is one of my favorite movies and I'd love to have it to show off.

Right now I'm trying to see what I can do to get my DivX encoded Transformer (as in More Then Meets the Eye) episodes playable on my Clie. They are in MPEG4 video with MPEG3 audio, and average about 45MB in size. I remember seeing one post somewhere but cant find it where someone managed to get a movie with MPEG4 video and MPEG3 audio on a Memory Stick without conversion. I'm a big Transformers fan, and I'd love to watch the episodes while I'm out. I've been working on my problem now for a full two weeks (about 10 hours of time) with no luck so far. Any ideas or help would be appreciated. Thank you!


The problem is the audio in MP3 format. IC doesnt like that. Have you tried VirtualDub? Do a search for it on the forums. You can drop your DIVX AVI in, and recompress the files with uncompressed audio, drop the new file into IC and VOILA! That is what I did with Shrek, it is 112mb for the ENTIRE movie and it looks GREAT!!!

ash =o)